Jeroen Maas: [00:00:00] Of course, immigration is very much under the looking glass for the coming elections. There are quite a few right-wing parties that plan to make the rules more strict, I think, which is difficult because we also have European rules that have to be respected in regard to, for example, family reunification.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:00:25] Welcome to the Investment Immigration podcast by you Uglobal.com with weekly in-depth interviews with the world's leading investment immigration professionals. Welcome to another episode of the Investment Immigration podcast brought to you by Uglobal.com. I'm your host, Salman Siddiqui. So today, we are going to focus on the Netherlands. Now, recently, the Netherlands has been in the news because of the government shakeup there, which happened quite recently. The government there announced that they're going to go into elections. And the reason why was because they had some disagreements over the immigration policy, and that's why they are going for elections. So, we're going to try to find out what's the future of investment immigration in this country. Given this background, are we going to see a more investment-friendly option there, or is it going to be more of the same? As we already know, the residency by investment program in the Netherlands came to a stop in 2021. Is that going to change? So, we're going to talk all about this. And today we have a very special guest with us who's going to explain everything to us. His name is Jeroen Maas. He's the partner at Delissen Martens. He's actually based in The Hague right now. So welcome to the show, Jeroen.

Jeroen Maas: [00:01:53] Thank you. Salman Thank you for having me on the program.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:01:56] Thank you. And so, Jeroen, let's first talk about what's happening in the country right now. There is this whole talk about the country going towards elections coming in November. And could you please explain to me the political scenario at the moment about what was the dispute about the immigration policy and what is to be expected in the coming elections in November?

Jeroen Maas: [00:02:20] Well, that's an interesting question. Also, a little bit difficult to explain. I think the background is that the Netherlands is facing several challenges, and we're in a housing crisis. We're in the midst of a carbon crisis, which makes it very difficult to build any projects and things like that. And, actually, the government has fallen over the topic of immigration. Also, given the fact that this is quite a small country, we have 17 million people living in the country, and of course, the number of immigrants are increasing rapidly, but it's not so much because of investors and business people, but mainly asylum seekers. I think the right-wing government has basically put this topic under pressure which caused the Cabinet to fall.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:03:11] Right. And just to explain a little bit further, so what's happening now in the country? The country is going toward an election in November, right? Do you expect some changes in the immigration policy which would be more friendly towards foreign investors?

Jeroen Maas: [00:03:25] Well, of course, immigration is very much under the looking glass for the coming elections. There are quite a few right-wing parties that plan to make the rules more strict, I think, which is difficult because we also have a European rules that that have to be respected in regard to, for example, family reunification. I think the problem is that nobody is really looking at the positive side of immigration and what it can bring for the Netherlands. We do know that there are a lot of jobs available, but not the people who do these jobs. So, eventually, there have to be, I think, some rules making it possible for migrants to work in the Netherlands more easily. But it's difficult because it's a very sensitive topic, and nobody really wants to talk about that.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:04:16] That's right. And the reason why I'm asking all of this is because, as we know already, there was a big change in the Netherlands program that suited a lot of investors and foreign entrepreneurs. But that changed in correct me if I'm wrong in 2021. So, if you could give me a background from, say, why did the Netherlands decide to end its residency by investment program in 2021? And how did this decision impact foreign investors since then? And then, of course, we're going to talk about what alternatives are currently available now.

Jeroen Maas: [00:04:48] I think I have to explain a little bit about this investor program that we had for the Netherlands because a lot of things have been said about it and written about it. But, effectively, since the scheme was in 2013, I think under ten people have actually had an investor's residence permit. And the main reason why it was not a very popular scheme is that there were very specific requirements as to the type of investment that had to be made. We're talking about €1.25 million that had to be invested into certain things like sustainable energy, things that would benefit the Dutch economy and were maybe not so much interesting for an investment in itself. This is one side. Or one reason why it was not so popular. Another reason is that the source of the money that is used for the investment has to be proven. It has to be proven that it's from a clean source, so to speak, which is not very popular for all the investors but also sometimes practically impossible, depending on the country that they are from. Maybe it was like nine people who had this permit. It was also not very popular for the Dutch government because there was always I think fear was greater than the opportunities that were seen in this residency scheme.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:06:17] So it has come to a halt in 2021 or has it not? Or is there still some processing going on under very strict conditions and after proving your due diligence?

Jeroen Maas: [00:06:29] Well, the plug has been officially pulled for the program, so it's not possible anymore to make any applications for the program. And I think the reason why they did it is because of the small number of people who were benefiting from this scheme, but also the fear of abuse, which has always been bigger than the opportunities that would seem for this program. Also, because the Dutch government doesn't want to encourage people to get access to [European Union] EU citizenship too easily.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:07:03] That's right. And do you think that things might change with the elections now coming in the Netherlands? Do you think there could be a revival of this program in the future if a new or different government comes into place?

Jeroen Maas: [00:07:15] I think even if it's going to be a left-wing or a right-wing government, I don't think we will see any more flexible rules in regard to immigration. I think all the political parties will want to make it tighter and stricter. Yeah, up to the point, of course, that it's not possible to make it any stricter to the EU restrictions. Don't see any more flexible rules in the near future. It's just too much pressure on this topic.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:07:44] I see. Okay, so what options do foreign investors and entrepreneurs currently have in their country at this stage?

Jeroen Maas: [00:07:53] Well, at this moment, the options are quite limited. We have a residency scheme for startups, also for self-employed people, entrepreneurs, and for highly skilled migrants. And apart from that may be some very specific permits related to specific types of work in the Netherlands, work permits.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:08:15] Right? So, let's then talk about the residency permit for foreign startup programs in the Netherlands. So, could you give an overview of this residence permit for a foreign startup program? What are the key eligibility criteria for foreign entrepreneurs to apply for this permit?

Jeroen Maas: [00:08:33] Yeah. So, this startup residency scheme is aimed to stimulate startups in the Netherlands and to encourage foreign entrepreneurs to come to the Netherlands and start their companies here. And in return, there's a fairly low threshold residency scheme requirements that are not too difficult to satisfy.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:08:54] What are those requirements?

Jeroen Maas: [00:08:56] Well, the main requirements are that the products or the service that the company brings is innovative. That, I think, is the most important requirement. And another one is that there has to be a professional facilitator that guides the entrepreneur towards becoming independent or self-sufficient. There are some guidelines as to how this should be assessed, this innovativeness criterion, and often I would say there is a tech element involved, but it's not strictly necessary because, in the Netherlands, we have certain top sectors of industry that are stimulated by the government. For example, the creative industry, agriculture, and horticulture. And as long as it is something within those sectors, it can also be innovative. If it's helping the Dutch economy, of course, it has to bring something new. It could be something in the logistics, it could be social innovation. Also, what is mentioned is the introduction of corporate social responsibility, whatever that means. But it's not always tech, necessarily.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:10:06] What about in terms of language requirements to meet for the applicant or other criteria that affect the application process?

Jeroen Maas: [00:10:14] Well, language is not an issue because it has to be a fairly low threshold scheme. And also in the Netherlands, English is quite easy to get by with. So this is not a requirement. But the entrepreneur, for example, has to be able to pay for his own expenses in the year that the residence permit covers, which is usually done through a. Sits on a bank account. Sometimes the bank account of the facilitator can be used for that. And another important thing is that the entrepreneur has to make a step by step plan from idea to company, which is also part of the application. And I think it's also important to understand that the facilitator plays a very important role in the whole process, because if a facilitator is not willing to support or endorse, this plan is not going through. So it plays like a decisive role in the application.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:11:12] And how does one find this facilitator? Is there a government approved list of facilitators that one has to collaborate with? How does that work?

Jeroen Maas: [00:11:21] Well, it has to be a facilitator that can prove experience that is financially healthy. Et cetera. Et cetera. It doesn't have to be a specific facilitator, but there are a number of facilitators that are officially recognized by the government, and they can be found at the website of the Dutch Enterprise Agency. And of course, the benefit of using a recognized facilitator is that you always know that this person is not being scrutinized or anything. They will be accepted.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:11:52] Right. And how much money does one have to show to start, you know, start a business in the country? Do they have to show a huge amount or no?

Jeroen Maas: [00:12:01] Well, for some people, of course, it's still a lot of money, but we're talking about roughly €15,000, which is mainly it's not for the business, but mainly to live and to pay the rent in the coming year.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:12:14] Yeah, that doesn't sound a lot at all. So I think the main hurdle for foreign entrepreneurs might be the approval of their business plan. What do you advise to your clients about what they need to be careful about when listing about their business plan and their startup plan in the country? What are the key mistakes usually people make and what kind of advice can you give on that?

Jeroen Maas: [00:12:35] That's difficult to say. I think what we see is that a lot of foreign students, they come to the Netherlands to study and also a lot of tech studies. It seems that for many graduating students, the startup scheme is like the last resort because they often have preference to enter into a job as a highly skilled migrant, for example. And usually if they apply for a startup residence permit, it's because they didn't find a job within the year after their graduation that they're still allowed to stay. So it's usually they rush into an application for a startup residence permit, which of course is not an ideal entry point. On the other hand, there are also people who apply from abroad think they will have better motives to work out their plan and to get in touch with the facilitator at an early stage. And the facilitator really helps the entrepreneur to make the plan according to the standards and the guidelines of the Dutch Enterprise Agency. So if a facilitator believes that this plan can work, it's almost always going to be accepted for innovativeness by the enterprise agency.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:13:48] Right. And this enterprise agency you're talking about, it's a government agency that vets a person's business plan.

Jeroen Maas: [00:13:57] Yes. The actual responsible authority is the IND, which is the Dutch Immigration Authority. This is where the application is submitted or if the applicant is abroad at the Dutch embassy. But then the IND forwards the application to the Enterprise agency for assessing the facilitator and the innovativeness.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:14:17] What happens then once one gets the residence permit under the foreign Startup program? Is that residency for one year? Is it for five years, and does that lead to permanent residency in the country?

Jeroen Maas: [00:14:29] Well, that's a good question. At this moment, the residence permit is granted for one year on the basis of an official report that came out end of last year. They are thinking of extending this to two years if necessary. It's not possible now under the current rules to extend the startup visa. So, a startup entrepreneur who is moving towards a scale-up or still wants to continue business activities after one year has to apply for an entrepreneurship residence permit.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:15:00] Right. And does that lead to permanent residency, then? If one stays there for five years, for example.

Jeroen Maas: [00:15:06] The first entrepreneurship residence permit can be granted for two years, but it can be extended as long as the entrepreneur can show that sufficient income is generated from the company. And after a stay of five years, including startup, the entrepreneur could apply for permanent residency, although there is an additional requirement of integration.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:15:29] Right. And what is that integration? Does that mean one has to learn more about the Dutch culture or they have to learn the Dutch language?

Jeroen Maas: [00:15:37] Well, there is an integration exam that needs to be passed for being able to qualify for the permanent residence permit. And this involves certain subjects. One of them is culture, but it's a fairly easy part of the exam. But most subjects come down to proficiency in the language: speaking, listening, writing, reading, etcetera. This is the hardest part, I think.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:16:02] In your experience, do you see applicants who come under the foreign startup program? Are they interested in staying there for longer periods to gain permanent residency or citizenship?

Jeroen Maas: [00:16:13] Well, I've been looking at some statistics in anticipation of this podcast, and it shows all the statistics for startup applications between 2015, when the program was introduced, until 2022. And what it shows is that closely under a thousand applications have been submitted in this period. Most of them have been granted. It would be around 85%. But what is quite striking is that after this one year of residence, the startup permits only a limited number of entrepreneurs have applied for stay. As a self-employed person is less than half of the number. So, it's like 420. And I think this is a point of focus for the Dutch government. If they still want to keep encouraging entrepreneurs to settle here, to stay here, to develop their businesses.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:17:07] Is the self-employed status different from what one gets as a foreign startup residence permit, or is it the same thing?

Jeroen Maas: [00:17:16] Well, it's not the same thing. If a person would apply for a self-employed residence permit right away. Not being a startup, there is an intricate scoring system that applies where a minimum number of points has to be accumulated for different qualities of the entrepreneur. Nor like educational degrees, but also experience. The business plan can also be awarded with points. And then also there's a category called the added value for the Dutch economy, where it is all about job creation, investment and innovation, which is a difficult thing to qualify for. But if the startup entrepreneur has a statement from a facilitator showing that he has done all the things necessary to develop their plan, then all of these points are assumed to be accumulated. This is an easy step up for the startup entrepreneur because the most important thing that remains for the startup entrepreneur to qualify for a self-employed visa is that he must show sufficient income.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:18:25] Can one bring their family eventually if they qualify for the foreign entrepreneur residence permit, or does that take an additional few years?

Jeroen Maas: [00:18:35] No, this is possible. But also, income is very important because the entrepreneur will have to show that he will be able to support his family members financially.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:18:45] And what is the difference between a foreign startup visa and another type of business visas that might be available? Firstly, are they the business visas that are available to foreign applicants, or is this the only one?

Jeroen Maas: [00:18:58] Well, at the beginning, I mentioned to others we have the startup visa scheme, we have the self-employed residency scheme, and there are basically more schemes for residency on the basis of employment, the most popular is for highly skilled migrants because it's a very fast procedure.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:19:18] Is there something special that the Netherlands offers that is very, you know, uniquely attractive for them to choose the Netherlands over, say, for example, Germany or other countries?

Jeroen Maas: [00:19:30] Well, of course, the countries are competing with each other to get all the highly educated and highly skilled workers to come to their countries. I do think that a lot of expats find the Netherlands an attractive country to settle in. Well, it's maybe a mix of things. It's the climate, the working conditions, education for the children. There's a good infrastructure for expats, and it's very easy for them to get by in the English language. And there are schools in almost every language available. So that makes it quite popular for expats to come to the Netherlands for their work.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:20:09] What would your advice be to people who are listening to this show and are thinking about applying for, you know, the routes that you just mentioned? Should they wait until the elections and things have settled down there, or should they just continue because your applications will be processed as normal?

Jeroen Maas: [00:20:25] Yes. Well, I don't think the elections are going to dramatically impact the immigration climate in the years to come. Of course, we have the highly skilled migrants’ scheme, but that is really necessary for all the workers that are not available in the Netherlands. So it's not like they're stealing the jobs of Dutch people, which may be some sentiment, but essentially, we need those people. There are tens of thousands of ICT workers and programmers working here and so many other people working at multinationals, for example, in the oil industry. So, it's really not an issue that this program will continue.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:21:06] We're coming to the end of our episode. But before I let you go, I just want to also give you an opportunity to explain or highlight certain points of the Foreign Start-Up program, and the other programs that you mentioned. I'm giving you an opportunity to pitch to our listeners and our viewers. You have 30 seconds to make your pitch about why they should apply right now. So go.

Jeroen Maas: [00:21:26] Ahead. I think the Netherlands is a very attractive country for foreign workers and entrepreneurs. Within the limited options for immigration, there are quite some interesting possibilities within the startup scheme or also for people who want to work for a company as long as they have found a facilitator, if they have a good plan or if they find an employer that is recognized by the Dutch immigration authorities, these programs offer a really pretty fast- and-low-threshold opportunity to come to the Netherlands and benefit from the ecosystem and the climate that we have here.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:22:03] Thank you so much, Jeroen, for sharing your insights into the country's program about what's to be expected in the coming months. Really appreciate you explaining all of those points to us. You're welcome. And in the end, I would just like to give a shout-out to our listeners that please stay tuned to our show. We'll be bringing you more episodes and more programs from around the world with our expert guests. So, stay tuned.

Salman Siddiqui: [00:22:33] You've been listening to the Investment Immigration podcast by Uglobal.com. Join us again soon for more in-depth conversations exploring investment immigration opportunities from around the world.

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