Marco Mazzeschi: Consider that when you apply for the unintelligible residence visa, the consulate can keep your passport for three, four months and it may take one, two months, at least, to get the appointment to file for the visa application. For the investor visa, you have a priority, your initial phase. You don't need to leave your passport. When you get the approval by the ministry, you have a priority by the consulate. We have had some clients getting the visa in two days, others in one week.
Salman Siddiqui: Welcome to the Investment Immigration podcast by you UGlobal.com with weekly in-depth interviews with the world's leading investment immigration professionals. Welcome to another episode of the UGlobal Investment Immigration Podcast. I'm your host, Salmaan Siddiqui, and today we are going to focus on Italy's program about the investment immigration options there. Now, a lot has been happening in Italy lately, especially with the political developments there. We don't know what's happening there in terms of the options for investors, especially immigrant investors there. What kind of future they have. There's a lot of nervous conversations online. So, to help us all unpack what's happening there, really, we have a special guest today from Italy. His name is Marco Mazzeschi. He's the founder of Mazzeschi law firm. Welcome to the show, Marco.
Marco Mazzeschi: Thank you, Salman. Thank you for hosting me.
Salman Siddiqui: Thank you. So, Marco, can you give us first an overview of the residency options for investors and high net worth individuals in Italy? How many are there, and which one leads to permanent residency? Let's first talk about that.
Marco Mazzeschi: Yes, Thank you. I will focus on the most popular two options, basically, because the there are many other options, but they are related to having work or being sponsored by a company. So, I'm talking about individuals who are not sponsored by a company. The apparently easiest option is the so-called elective residence visa, which is a kind of retirement visa. It is apparently easy because the requirements are very simple. You must show to have a passive income exceeding no less than €31,000 a year, passive income not deriving from work, and then accommodation in Italy, and then all the rest is left to the discretion of the consulate. Why do I say apparently easy? Because this is a totally discretionary visa. It is to be decided by each Italian consulate. To give you an example, recently most consulates require a much higher income than the minimum. So many people think, oh, with just a little above the minimum I can get the visa. There is no guarantee. Secondly, the processing time at the consulate is very long. The consulate will answer you first. All it's long. It's difficult to get an appointment. After you get an appointment, you file your application together with your passport, which will be kept by the consulate and then it goes on for months. The consulate says the time to answer is 90 days, but then they request more documents. So, we hardly take any of these cases because most of the times clients will be unhappy with the fact that we cannot do anything to speed up the process with the consulate and so on. Another negative point of this visa is that it does not allow any kind of work in Italy. And so, the consulate looks at your age, at your last tax returns. If you see that you recently worked, it gets harder to get this visa.
The second option is the investor visa, Italy's golden visa, which is more expensive but more predictable because once it is approved, it doesn't entail any discretion on the consulate. But I don't want to talk too long about that, so I'll leave you some questions.
Salman Siddiqui: Thank you for giving that overview of those two options that are there still on the table. Now, I want to ask you this about the changes which are expected in Italy's this investor focused visa. Are there any changes expected? I'm asking you this because there's been a big change in the government recently in Italy, where you have a government which is not seen by the world as a more, how can I put it, let's say immigration friendly is the perception out there. They're not looking for non-EU immigrants to come in. That's the impression that most people have. Is that true? The perception one expects in terms of the changes to the immigration and investor visa law, is something happening there?
Marco Mazzeschi: Frankly, I don't think there is any impact on the new environment and new political situation for some reasons. Probably many people are scared by the fact what's happening in Portugal, for example, or other countries. People must consider two things. First, Italy’s investor visa does not include real estate investment. The one of the issues that I've read was linked to the Portugal visa is that it created a lot of disruptions in the real estate market. Italy does not include real estate. Secondly, for some reasons, Italy’s golden visas are not being much publicized. So, you must consider that until recently probably have been issue, since 2018, there have been kind of 500, 600 investor visas issued. That's not particularly difficult simply because not including real estate is not attractive for many agencies to sell or promote this visa. That's one of the reasons. So many, many people they don't know. Many of our clients. They approach us with other visa options. And when I explain to them the investor visa option, they say about how funny it is; I didn't find any mention in the consulate website. And this is not a surprise for Italy because for certain things made in Italy, we have to do the best thing. So, once we do it, we don't need to publicize it. Every all the world should know it. That's what's happening. I don't expect so far any changes.
Salman Siddiqui: So, I mean, I get that from you that the lack of awareness perhaps is is there about Italy's investor visa option. But I want to understand from you the current government's outlook on investor visa. Is it encouraging that? Are you seeing the numbers of approvals of investor visas recently on the rise? Is it or is it at the same level as before? And what are you reading between the lines in terms of encouragement for people to apply for this route now?
Marco Mazzeschi: Definitely. There's been a huge increase. The latest available figures, official figures, at the end of 2021 there were only 60 investor visas issued until then. Then I see that when we receive an approval, the client receives an application and on the top of the PDF there is a number. So, from my estimate, in 2022 there have been kind of 300 or 400 at least investor visas. We have followed many. And this is not a surprise because, in conjunction with the investor visa or similar more or less at the same time, Italy has approved this quite well-known tax flat rate of €100,000 a year. So many they put together. First, they think that by applying for the flat tax rate scheme, they can obtain something like an immigration status. In reality, the government didn't link the two things. The immigration and tax are two parallel routes. But now many family offices, they know many clients, many EU citizens, they don't need any visas. They can just move in Italy and apply for a flat tax rate. No EU citizen can take benefit of the fact that they are moving residency to Italy. They can obtain these €100,000 flat tax rates for whatever they have abroad.
Salman Siddiqui: This is a very encouraging sign that the number of investor visas are on the rise. But I think correct me if I'm wrong, this is also because of the post pandemic era that we're seeing? The pandemic is now gone. And of course, this is sort of expected that the numbers of the investor visas would increase after that, isn't it?
Marco Mazzeschi: Yeah. Post-pandemic in conjunction with, I think, two other things. The euro dollar currency became, especially for Americans, much more convenient to invest in in Italy in the euro area and the political turmoil in the states. The United States after the election of Mr. Biden, the riots, and uncertainties about possible new troubles in view of the new elections. Mainly, they take into account the second residency. And what we didn't mention is that Italy investor visa is the only one that, explicitly by law, does not require you to spend any minimum time in Italy. So, for some clients who are not taking into account the flat tax rate is still convenient because if you have the second home in Italy, they can get the investment visa and permit to stay in Italy. But if they spend less than six months a year in the country, they don't have any tax obligations.
Salman Siddiqui: That's right. And I'm trying to understand who is applying for the investor visas in recent times, especially now. Are you seeing more from non-EU countries, like the US, now applying more than compared to before? What are the trends? Are you seeing there and are there certain countries where you haven't seen successful applications in recent times?
Marco Mazzeschi: We have a discrete number of applicants and visas that we have already followed. Most are for US nationals and UK nationals. The UK, because there have been so close to Italy for so many years, and now they discovered after Brexit they can no longer spend more than 90 days or 180 days. So, it became, for whoever has a second home in Italy is difficult. Italy investor visa does not have any limitation in terms of nationalities; only for a few months last year there was put a ban against Belarus and Russian citizens as been lifted. So now the problem is not getting the visa itself but is getting all the bank declarations first and then opening a bank account after, because many banks are reluctant to work. I have Clients who were already living in the EU, so they have a new permit. So, they are specifically exempted from any sanctions by the EU regulation. And still they have a lot of troubles opening a bank account because the banks they saw that they still have also a Russian passport didn't want to proceed. We don't have so far, even though have some good connection with China and Taiwan. Very, very few applicants. I think the main reason from China is that there are now limitations in moving your capitals. There is a very strict limitation in sending your money funds abroad in excess of €50,000, or you must give a lot of explanations. And many from Asian countries, they preferred to go to Canada for their bigger Chinese speaking communities. So, we don't see a big number; there’s a very limited number from Chinese speaking countries.
Salman Siddiqui: Right. And you're saying that the restrictions perhaps might be on the end of, say, for example, in China's case, the restrictions might be there, but not from Italy's government. I'm asking this because, as you know, Italy's new government, is in power now, I'm trying to understand if they have preferences for certain countries applicants or not.
Marco Mazzeschi: No, the main point for obtaining an investor visa is not nationality. The most difficult part is obtaining the letter first from one bank confirming that they have carried out a very detailed due diligence. The Italian government, the Italian ministry, asked for a letter very specific that the bank has carried out a due diligence under the Anti-Terrorist Financing Policy (ATF) regulations on the following points one, two, three, four, five, six; strangely, because this regulation have been implemented by most countries. But many banks, they don't want to use the language required by the Ministry. So that's the part that sometimes takes negotiation of a couple of months with a bank to adjust the language in a format that is still acceptable by the Ministry. But is not related to nationality.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. Okay. And let's talk about you sort of hinted that the kind of banking regulations are there now. Let's talk about the impact of the Ukraine war, which is still ongoing in Europe, on the country's program. Have you seen more applicants from, for example, countries like Russia, Belarus and, of course, Ukraine, in the investor visa route? Since that time, since last year?
Marco Mazzeschi: Russia, there is definitely an increasing interest. The fact that they tell you unless they have a second passport or they are already leaving the EU, our answer is that there is no no limit in requiring investor visa. But how can you as a if you are Russian, you are falling with this this category, you are subject to the limitation. The bank cannot transfer more than €100,000. You know, there is a EU guideline, so you cannot obtain a letter from a bank confirming that they can transfer a half €1 million, which is one of the requirements for the Italian investor visa.
Salman Siddiqui: And the same applies to the Belarus Nationals as well. Yeah.
Marco Mazzeschi: We didn't have any application from Belarus or request or query from Belarus, I have to tell you. And what we did discuss is what are the other requirement in term of kind investment, Because the cheapest one is €250,000, but in a startup company. Startup company is not only new companies are especially company dealing with it and innovative projects.
Salman Siddiqui: Before we jump on that, I also wanted to find out from you if Ukrainians are applying for the investor visa route. Are you seeing that trend? No.
Marco Mazzeschi: Initially, you know, the great number of Ukrainians were granted a special status arriving in Italy if they left due to the war. But so far we didn't have any application from Ukraine.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. Okay. That's interesting. And another thing I want to understand from you is the investor visa route. Is there any eligibility criteria in terms of the language? Because that question always comes up.
Marco Mazzeschi: No language. The government, the Ministry, wants you to to submit information on your professional CV. But I don't know why, because there is no requirement. They want to look at you. But it doesn't, even the age the age. They want to see this your history also in terms of checking if you are politically opposed, for example, this kind of things. But no, no language requirement. The only requirement is this criminal certificate for the countries of where the applicant has lived permanently for the last ten years.
Salman Siddiqui: I see a lot of countries do that. And moving on, you also mentioned that Italy doesn't offer the real estate option like we see in other countries, like Portugal, you mentioned, and Malta as well. So, don't you think it is missing out by not providing that or has missed out on that opportunity that a lot of countries were offering? What is your personal opinion on that?
Marco Mazzeschi: Well, some years ago, actually, I was asked to issue a support letter, like an opinion, for the one of the Italian real estate association to plead with the Ministry to include real estate, but probably I have changed my mind because I've seen what happened in many countries where you include real estate, has created a how I don't know how to define but disruption into the into the market. Right. In reality, if you look at the client interest, the Italian investor visa is not so bad because if you invest one of the most popular investments that we do for clients, we assist clients doing using a bank with buying shares of listed companies. So, in that case, the only risk is the stock market. But if you buy a blue chip, like some companies that are partly owned by the government, you know that your risk is limited. If you see what's happening, what's been happening for many years in Portugal, where in some cases clients were sold overvalued properties. And then, the other positive part is that if for any reason you change the client, if the applicant changes after a few years its mind, you can resell the shares on the market the next day.While for the real estate, ou don't know if the market value is the same if unless you purchase a trophy asset in the center of major city, perhaps what you end is not immediately sellable. I mean, if you put it in the market to pay commission. So, the option of the shares of listed company is relatively safe. I saw very few clients purchasing shares of private companies because it's more complicated. You must negotiate, you must do our due diligence. You are a minority shareholder. You must negotiate a shareholder agreement to regulate what rights you have. So, most of our clients in shares or there are some limited numbers of funds where clients can invest, they cannot do their own portfolio, so they cannot choose; I buy three shares of three different companies. If you buy shares, you must buy shares of one single company.
Salman Siddiqui: I get your point about how getting shares in a company would be a better investment compared to real estate. Also, like we've seen in other countries, the impact that it has had on the local populations there because of gentrification, a lot of problems came in. I think that's the official reason that the Portuguese government gave in the case that people couldn't buy properties. Locals there couldn't buy properties because of their prices went up. So, are you saying that perhaps Italy was smart and not offering that from the start? In terms of real estate? It sorts of, in hindsight, turned out to be a good, good way forward.
Marco Mazzeschi: Thank you. You're very generous in saying that Italy. Frankly, I don't think it was a meditated decision. Theyprobably realized that it was difficult to articulate the option. What do you mean? To buy something that you must restore because you know it's not linked to the investor visa, but there is now simultaneous. So now you have these €1 options.
Salman Siddiqui: Exactly. €1 options are coming for Villages and all of that.
Marco Mazzeschi: That which is linked to also proving or presenting a plan for refurbishment. So if you look at the into writing, a law which is carefully drafted is not easy to regulate such an option going to another option that is not yet operative like the digital nomad visa. The digital nomad visa in Italy was approved on paper by law general law last year, and they said further requirements of the specific requirement would be approved. A further decree is the decree is still on hold because if you think about digital nomad visa, about how do you regulate for tax, for Social Security, for insurance. So, in a country structured like Italy or bigger countries, I know that Spain has done it but is not easy. It also has some possible problems of violating rights. I mean, how why do you give a preferential tax rate to a worker coming to Italy as a digital nomad compared to someone who is working in Italy regularly? So, it's there are also some ethical constitutional reasons to be taken into account.
Salman Siddiqui: Right. And that's what I want to understand from you about the coming to the topic of digital nomad visa. We see a lot of countries in the region and outside the region. They have offered that during the pandemic and it was very successful for many countries. But in Italy, what's happening about the digital nomad visa? What seems to me is the fact that it got stuck in this legal bureaucracy thing and it just got stuck there and they are missing out. And it seems like there is no solution out there and that option will still be not be there on the table. And why is that? When will this be solved, do you think?
Marco Mazzeschi: At the end of April, I posted something about legally celebrating the first non-birthday of the Italian digital nomad visa because it had been one year since its approval by law. But the law says the requirements and conditions will need to be approved with a decree to be coordinated by four different ministries. Then, the government changed. And so now it is not a priority. It’s too difficult to coordinate the work of four ministries and different parties. And despite the fact that something is happening also in major countries, I mean, no longer in small countries with Spain, it now has a digital nomad visa for six months. And I think it's working right, the missing opportunity. But it's like the investor visa. I mean, if you see that Italy approved the investor visa very late compared to other European countries, in 2018. It became operative in 2019. For the first two years, there were 20 investor visas.
Salman Siddiqui: Right. So now let's let's talk about the future options that we can think would be there apart from the investor visa. Hopefully the digital nomad visa will be approved soon. But what are you seeing in terms of the government's policies? Are they planning to give more incentives to investors to come here or is this going to be the only options at the moment, do you think?
Marco Mazzeschi: From what I know, I don't have any political connection, but I don't think there is anything on the agenda. Another option we didn't talk about is that there are few hundred quotas every year for innovative entrepreneurs there is a startup visa.
Salman Siddiqui: Yes. Let's talk about the startup visa. You mentioned that earlier as well. Let's talk about that visa and what are the requirements for that and the minimum thresholds that one needs for it? Yeah.
Marco Mazzeschi: The minimum threshold is very low. I mean, the investor must show the availability of €50,000, so not much, but they shouldn't focus on the funds, which is the second thing. I mean, the most important point is to be being able to show an innovative project, an innovative idea. They look at the also the candidate's CV. So, if I'm a lawyer and I present a project that I want to develop some special IT product, they will not consider myself. Look, if you have a PhD, if you have a Master's, if you have a professional experience in certain sectors and they look at the proposal they want. I suggest to clients to prepare a good short PowerPoint, a good business plan for the first two years. And if they have more than €50,000 to show, it’s better, you know, because you know better than me, money is the king everywhere. Basically, if you get a visa within one year from arrival in Italy, you will create your own company and the money will be used for your own company. So, it's not something that you must invest in a third-party company. Even though the startup visa also includes the possibility of joining an existing startup. But in this case, it can be more. Again, it's like an investor visa for startup. You mean means that you have to do the due diligence, discuss with the partners, put the money in a company; actually, hopefully it will be in the next Google or Yahoo! But you don't know. While if you start your own company, it's all the money that you put are under your control.
Salman Siddiqui: But the question here is, Marco, that how does the government define innovation? What do they mean by that? Like, it seems like a very vague and broad term. Like, for example, for me, I might come up with an idea. To me, it's the most innovative idea in the world, but it might not be an innovative or sound business plan to the government. So, can you give us an example of some success stories of what that could define, what innovation means or what kind of things they are looking for?
Marco Mazzeschi: The innovation was left on purpose, vague because the Ministry wants to have the discretionary power to decide yes or no. I had clients coming from telecommunications; they don't exactly know, but a manager who had worked 20 years in telecommunication, I think it was a trend already some years ago before the war, came to Italy and propose some tools for implementing some cables in telecommunications or IT blockchain. Another client has a some several patents on soap, a a special formula for soap. For example, another client several years ago from Russia obtained an approval because they will create a website which will put in touch Russian citizens in Italy with suppliers. It was not so innovative, but it worked. But recently, the ministry committee has become stricter because what happened in some years ago, they didn't issue many of these visas, but they gave too many to Chinese who were did not really intend to do business or live in Italy. They wanted just to have a second residence. So, some flow of Chinese, the success rate of these visas is generally if you look at the statistics, 50%, again, not because it's particularly difficult. What I tell now clients is that there is no need for our help for the initial phase. You register on a ministry platform, so don't want to charge clients for doing nothing. I tell them be focused on creating something a new idea, really know something new. It doesn't need to have a Nobel prize idea but need to be that not simply want to open a shop for selling shoes in Florence. It needs to be something connected with the telecommunication, IT, robotics, biotechnology, all these new areas. And then that's all. I mean after if they obtain the visa, some clients are finding harder is again the bank letter confirming obtaining a bank. Confirmation that they have available funds. You can't imagine how many people stuck with investor visa at the beginning say, oh, okay, no problem with my bank and then the bank, they don't want to use the language required by the ministry.
Salman Siddiqui: Could you explain that a little more why they don't want to do that and why does this happen?
Marco Mazzeschi: Oh, the last bank a few days ago started a letter saying we write this letter, but we don't take any responsibility. So, I say, you don't take responsibility even for the things you write. So, what's the purpose of writing the letter? The legal team, they say sometimes, oh, we attach our money laundering policy, 30 pages. We say that we comply with our money laundering policy. In reality, what the ministry is asking for is simply confirmation of the adherence to the ATF standards, which most countries have implemented. So, in other terms, the Italian government is asking the bank to confirm that they're complying with their law. That is a difficult argument with many investors visa. It takes two or three months of negotiation with the bank to obtain a letter which can be acceptable for the ministry.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. So what happens after that? Like, for example, if one gets through the startup visa or the investor visa, could you also explain to our listeners the residence permit they get? Do they get a temporary residence permit for one year and then, after a certain number of years, they get the permanent residence? Could you please explain that point.
Marco Mazzeschi: After you obtain the visa, any kind of long-term visa, like investor related residency or startup, you arrive in Italy. The first step is to apply for permanent stays called police registration. Let's say it's an application in three steps you apply at the post office, except for the investor visa where they can apply directly the police. They skip one step. The police then will do the fingerprinting and the photo, and then you are given this card that is this Permesso Soggiorno permit. This card replaces the visa because for further extensions you no longer need a visa. You go on extending the permit to stay. The police registration can be one or two years and before the expiry, you apply for an extension simultaneously. Many people confuse the step of residency. Okay, except for the investor visa where you can decide not to register as a resident living in Italy with a city hall, the other permits require you to register with a city hall. As a citizen living in the City Hall jurisdiction. This is important because for the first two steps, with a permit of stay, you start paying taxes and after five years, even though you didn't register for residence with the city hall, you can apply for permanent residency. Permanent residence is a card which now allows you to stay in indefinitely in Italy. Now it must be not renewed updated every ten years, but you have the right to stay indefinitely in Italy with a language test and by showing that you pay you have been paying taxes. Residency on the other hand is important. So, registration with the city hall is important and vital. If you want to apply for citizenship, citizenship can apply for after ten years, but the ten years start only from the date you are registered with the city hall. They don't look at your police registration. They look at the date when you register as living the citizen with a commune, with a city hall.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. Okay, so it's all connected. And you have to start with the process right from the start with the city hall registration, and then permanent residency, and then citizenship.
Marco Mazzeschi: So, this is important because automatically by bringing some of tax obligation, but it gives you, for example, the right to register with the health national service. It is required by the banks to open a bank account. You can buy a car, for example. Important rights only by applying for residency with the city hall, you have the full rights.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. Okay. And thank you for explaining that to our listeners. And before I let you go, I want to also understand from you what you mentioned earlier about Italy's flat tax regime, and it has been gaining a lot of attention for its potential tax benefits. So just briefly, if you could provide an overview of how this tax regime works and what it offers to investors, why is it attractive? So, if you could just talk about that.
Marco Mazzeschi: Yeah, I'm not a tax expert, but I can tell you that the process is that you, the applicant, who has not been living in Italy before the last previous ten years, can apply to the tax agency. To get an approval, it takes a few months to get approved for this preferential tax rate. What does it mean? Once you're approved, you move residency in Italy and, despite moving residency, that would, in theory, bring you subject to worldwide taxation for Italy applied worldwide taxation system. So, once you become resident, you pay taxes on your Italian income, but you must declare your income taxes; anything that you have also abroad and, eventually, pay taxes also on your foreign income, unless it has been already taxed by a country which has an agreement against double taxation with Italy. To avoid this, you if you have applied and gotten an approval for a flat tax rate, you come to Italy, you pay every year €100,000 for you, plus eventually €25,000 for your spouse. And this covers whatever you have abroad, so you don't need to include in Italian tax declarations all and income assets, portfolio investment that you have abroad. Eventually you are subject to the ordinary Italian tax rates. If you have an income in Italy, any income that you have in Italy or if you own a property in Italy. So, you must declare and pay regular taxes on whatever you have in it. There is another thing: there is a special tax rate for pensioners, 7% tax rate for pensioners who move, but only in certain areas. So mostly in center-south of Italy. So, to attract people to move in areas which are less populated, the government has approved this only for pensioners. So, people who can prove that no longer are no longer working right.
Salman Siddiqui: So for retirees and they can come from any part of the world, right?
Marco Mazzeschi: Yeah. If they come from the EU, they don't need any visa. It's like is the investor. It's this preferential flat tax rate is you still need to apply for a visa. Pensioners eventually will try to apply for this elective residence visa, the first one we discussed. But they may have difficulty because they have a low pension, a pension, less than €31,000 or even exceeding, but not considered sufficient by the consulate. They may be rejected. People contacted me who wanted to move to Sicily, southern Italy from the UK and they get they were denied the visa because their pension was considered too low by the consulate.
Salman Siddiqui: I see. Okay. And which visa category is more popular with your clients? Are you seeing more trend towards the investor visa, or the retiree path that you just explained, or the startup one? What trends are you seeing these days?
Marco Mazzeschi: Startups have seen an increase in interest, but not many. Also, because there are few hundred quotas every year but don't see many, many applications because after you need to start a company and so on. I think the most popular in term of attraction is the equity, the retirement visa. Many they do by themselves mainly they contact us after receiving a denial. So, because for this, as I told you, it seems very easy. If you have already an accommodation in Italy, if you already own a house in Italy, you just need to prove that you have a passive income. For many others, the difficulty is that the consulate requires a minimum one-year lease agreement and many, they say, okay, how can I commit to a one-year lease agreement without knowing if I get a visa? Or in some parts, the company landlords are not happy to sign only one year lease agreement. So, they find these equity investor visa. We have seen a huge increase of number in terms of again, we are talking about. Few hundred probably every year, but compared to before, that is more expensive. So, you know, it's not for everyone to be able to have available half €1 million to invest in buying shares. So, it's definitely very attractive. Also, because it doesn't require you to invest before. So, there is no risk. To submit applications and documents. We eventually help you preparing everything. You get the visa, so you invest only after you get the visa.
Salman Siddiqui: And especially for our American listeners who are listening to this episode, your recommendation is that they should go for the investor visa and get the benefits?
Marco Mazzeschi: Yes. I mean, definitely, if there's some available funds, that is the most predictable route. Consider that when you apply for the resident visa, you can the consulate can keep you your passport for three, four months and may take one two months at least to get the appointment to file for the visa application. For the investor visa, you have a priority, your initial phase. You don't need to leave your passport. When you get the approval by the ministry, you have a priority by the consulate. We have had some clients getting the visa in two days, some other in one week.
Salman Siddiqui: In terms of the Americans who are coming for this visa route. Marco, could you tell us like what kind of Americans are coming? Is it a single investor coming there or are they moving with their families?
Marco Mazzeschi: No, no. Many are moving with their families. Probably the majority just move permanently and take advantage of the flat rate tax rate. A few others, they had a second home in Italy, and they want to have the ability to not be stuck with the 90 days, but they will consider will stay in Italy in less than six months a year. So, they can spend more time in the summer, for example, and they will not have for the time being. Many are continue working in the States, even though with investor visa you are specifically allowed also to work. A route that we didn't follow so far because the law says the investor visa can also be converted. So, possibly some people could try already proposed to some clients. Why don't we after two years, that is the initial permit. You could try and convert it into a self-employment permit. For example, if you are approved, you can withdraw the investment.
Salman Siddiqui: I see so many options available there, even through the investor visa route. Thank you so much for explaining all those options to us, Marco. I think there was a lot of new information for a lot of people out there, so I really thank you for sharing all of this with us.
Marco Mazzeschi: Thank you so much for hosting and for your questions. Very informative, it has been a pleasure.
Salman Siddiqui: Thank you. And I just want to shout out to our listeners that please stay tuned to our show. We'll be bringing you more guests from around the world to talk about more investment immigration programs. So stay tuned. Thank you.
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